On the morning of July 17, 2014, Ukrainian intelligence recorded a cell phone conversation between a military intelligence officer with the code name “Khmuryi and a fighter with the Russian-backed separatists forces, code name “Buryat,” who was in command of a flat-bed truck carrying a Buk antiaircraft missile launcher. The Ukrainians subsequently released audio and a transcript:
BURYAT: Where should we load this beauty, Nikolayevich?
KHMURYI: Which one? That one?
BURYAT: Yes, yes, the one that I brought. I am already in Donetsk.
KHMURYI: Is this the one that I am thinking about? The one ‘B’… ‘M’?
BURYAT: Yes, yes, yes. ‘Buk,’ ‘Buk.’
KHMURYI: Is it on a hauler?
BURYAT. Yes, it is on this one. We need to unload it somewhere and hide it.
KHMURYI: Is it with a crew?
BURYAT: Yes, with the crew.
KHMURYI: Don’t hide it anywhere, it will now go over there.
As extensive reporting by Bellingcat has subsequently made clear, the missile launcher had been sent over from Russia’s 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade the night before. Transfered to a field near the village of Snizhne, it sat for several hours, then picked off MH17. That night it was shipped back across the border.
Last week, Bellingcat released a report identifying “Khmuryi” as Sergey Nikolaevich Dubinsky, a major general in the GRU special forces. His photograph is above. This is the first time an individual participant in the shoot-down of MH17 has been identified by name.
To this day, it remains unclear exactly what Russia sought to achieve by destroying MH17. But the circumstances are coming ever more sharply into focus. Within minutes of destroying the civilian airliner, Russia launched a disinformation campaign that succeeded in misleading a large majority of Western observers into believing that the 777 had been shot down by accident by incompetent militiamen who had gotten their hands on a Buk by accident. On CNN, where I was still under contract at the time, this line was parroted reflexively. It was lamentable to me, and remains lamentable, that this “common sense” view was hewed to so narrowly. This kind of lock-step groupthink among the media is part of the reason that Russia’s misinformation campaign since 2014 has been so successful.
Bellingcat’s efforts, however, offer some grounds for optimism. To paraphrase Lincoln, you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. Dogged research by Elliot Higgins and his crew, paralleled by the investigative efforts of Dutch investigators, are slowly bringing to light those responsible for this war crime.
MH370 is a more difficult case, but the fundamentals are similar. A plane comes to grief; a flurry of implausible theories swirl. The public and the media alike are thoroughly confused. But quietly, step by step, the facts are laid bare. It’s only a matter of time before, like Dubinsky, the names and faces of the perpetrators are revealed to the public.
UPDATE: Bellingcat has published further insights into Dubinsky’s role based on new information that has surfaced as a result of the report discussed here.
Ref previous post and piece that I found on the beach in Tanzania (June 2015) .
Here is the flat panel piece. If you cannot open I’ll repost link to individual pictures.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fjmlz3oz23bi5bn/AADSyxic44QSsLGvpiBHZVd4a?dl=0
And here is the non-descript object that looks a bit like a strap fixture. The aluminium “straps” entering the slot were anchored in the injectable foam interior. Obviously not a particularly secure anchor point for a load-bearing strap, but there you are ….
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9u7ndpng5eghl11/AABZ1fEKp-n6xqpFhCI7p-Uta?dl=0
Correction: found June 2016. Position Tanzania coast, 7 degrees south.
FYI, after alerting ATSB and MY DCA about these pieces, they requested handover to Tanzania civil aviation authority (who were kind enough to pick them up from me). Whether or not they made their way anywhere after that I cannot tell…
So first you theorize Putin kidnapped MH370, and now you say Russia intentionally — not mistakenly, but intentionally — downed an airliner. It never ceases to amaze me how cartoonish the portrayals of Russia and Putin can be these days. Russia had nothing to gain and everything to lose by MH17 being shot down over Donbass. This was most likely a case of mistaken identity; deplorable, but not without precedent. Like Iran Air 655 in 1988 when the US mistakenly shot down 290 people from Iranian territorial waters and then refused to accept responsibility, not paying compensation to the families for 8 years, and then giving the ship’s captain the Legion of Merit.
@Paul Smithson, Thanks for posting those links. I agree that the first one looks a lot like the material that Blaine Alan Gibson collected. The second one, I’m not so sure. Feels less “airplane-y” to me but I could be wrong.
@Richie, The circumstances of Iran Air 655 and MH17 couldn’t be more different. In the former case, the Vincennes was on high alert and had been exchanging fire with Iranian gunboats when the Iranian passenger jet flew directly towards it. Yes, it misidentified the target, but it had a legitimate fear for its own safety, and no attempt was later made to float false conspiracy theories laying the blame at someone else’s feet.
After the shootdown, Russia deliberately spread misinformation implying that untrained militiamen accidentally fired on MH17 thinking it was an An-26. However, there is not way a trained Buk crew in active duty service with the Russian Army could make this mistake.
So what could have been of interest on mh17? Or was it just a diversion?
No two scenarios are identical, of course, but I think these are more similar than you acknowledge. Donetsk had been exchanging fire with Ukrainian forces too and had been attacked from the air following their rebellion and refusal to accept the coup that overthrew the president they overwhelmingly voted for. YouTube videos of rebel fighters being interviewed that were posted a month before the shootdown described Ukrainian fighter jets shadowing commercial airliners for cover. No way to verify that, but that was the claim (hey, maybe that was part of the setup for the conspiracy!).
I accept that the US didn’t deny it had shot down the Iranian plane, but it wasn’t in much position to do so because everyone knew the US ships were there, and airline pilots, including British Airways pilots, had been complaining for weeks about their confusing and unclear warnings to commercial aircraft. And Iran Air “flew directly toward” the Vincennes because the Vincennes was directly under the normal flightpath to Dubai. The US may not have issued conspiracy theories (like the MH370 capture theory or this intentional airliner shootdown theory), but for a long time they denied they were in Iranian waters and claimed falsely that the plane’s transponder was off. They certainly laid the blame at someone else’s feet considering they never apologized and refused to accept responsibility until they finally paid out compensation in 1996.
It’s your site (which I enjoy reading for the aviation expertise), so I’ll leave it at that and not belabor the point.
@Jeff Wise
It’s kind of sad but now you’ve placed yourself out of logical order finaly I’m affraid.
Unless you come back to more sensible standards I’m done with your ‘Russian views’ which are not supported by any evidence or clear indications.
This topic is not about data or finding the truth. It’s politics pointing towards a perpetrator unknown related to mh370.
Disgusting I feel.
Jeff, think twice before you loose it all on this blog.
People here are not looking for a scapegoat in this matter but for what happened and where the plane could be.
Hope you resert yourself and leave this topic behind very soon.
@PaulS
Nice find! I am jealous, because I am a pretty good beachcomer myself, when I get the opportunity. I’d probably be helping Blaine if I could break away.
Did you take a mini-Blaine excursion or did you happen to be over there?
@TBill. I happened to be living there!
@Richie
in a criminal investigation you will not always find harmonic relationships- we are seriously discussing a mass murder by GRU, dont fall back to childish behaviour after this tremendous progress in the investigation is truly identifying some of the responsible personnel.
@Ge Rijn
your reaction was to be expected, still i wish you mery christmas on your way home, if i forgot you in december
@jeff wise
i think that russia is preparing for military activities in europe right now. one of the best signs is, that gorbatchev sells his house in southern germany, or other signs are, that russian informants and agents prepare for their departure. i know that from events in my personal domain.
@all
i really am happy that truth prevails after all. As Sajid said about Kuala Lumpur being a hotspot of political maneuvres and killings nowadays with the Kim jong nam event, it may well turn out that the very profesional and capable RMP has means to identify the perpetrators in case of MH370 if allowed to act so swift as in case of Kim jon nam.
@ComicAcademy das ist brilliant
bellingcat tremendous effort in detail:
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2017/02/15/identifying-khmuryi-the-major-general-linked-to-the-downing-of-mh17/
Thank you for the new article @JW :^)
@JG, My pleasure!
If you say a state (Russia) has shot down MH17, you also have to admit the possibility that a state (e.g. USA) could have shot down MH370.
Interesting read “The crash of MH370” by James Nixon, a recently retired airline pilot
@Dave Opperman, What does he think happened?
@ Jeff Wise Some plastic fire, small but toxic.Crew probably died after the turn to the SIO. He dies not think the plane was on autopilot. if there is not much wind the plane will fly pretty straight. It is available on http://www.prweb.com/releases/2017/02/prweb14080488.htm
More applicably;
https://au.linkedin.com/in/james-nixon-04a35121
No experience with Boeings after the 727, so not conversant with
the generation of Flight Management Computer in the 777 (relevant
FMC’s of 777 generation can be considered to be those onwards from
the 737).
Was it his belief that the wind was what caused the turn about
Penang, then the track to & apparent track along N571?
I have seen some speculation that the debris from MH17 was planted in Africa as subterfuge for MH370. Is that possible?
And apologies in advance if this is a subject that has been broached (and/or debunked) on Jeff’s page before.
@ Ge Rijn
I think it’s a little unfair to single out Jeff on his Russia theory. After all, nearly every single theory apart from pilot suicide has a political bias to it, in fact, even pilot suicide isn’t immune (Malaysian cover-up etc). Many people have worn their prejudices on their sleeves as regards MH370 and a few have become dictated by them. Tail wagging the dog.
At the end of the day, until we find MH370 largely intact under the ocean (and we know for certain what we find isn’t just a substitute), then every single theory remains a possibility… From Christmas Island, to Kazakhstan, to Antarctica.
Russian rebels have already downed ukrainian transport plane from high altitude several days before in that same area.
Common sense would say to close that area for civil traffic.
@Nate, If you scroll back through previous posts you’ll see I’ve written about this a fair bit. And there’s more to come!
Thanks Dave. That idea was mooted here a while back, but it didn’t get very far. I don’t think that 777 can fly wings level w/o autopilot.
@StevanG, Not high altitude — An26 has a service ceiling of 25,000 feet. High altitude weapons had not been used in Donbass prior to the event and did not exist on separatist side until Russian Army sent one in the night before. Crucial to understand that MH17 did not come down as a result of negligence on the part of Malaysia, but as a deliberate act by those directing the operation of the missile system.
@all
It did not take me long long to find many things the Nixon book said that I did not agree with. I got the Kindle version from Amazon $2.50
@TBill
I scored a “reviewer” copy. Definitely not something that would have great appeal to people here.
Way-hey, Dennis – saved $2.50! Go treat yourself to something nice with the proceeds 🙂 Too bad that you gave it a stinking review, you mean old fellow.
Way-hey indeed, he really didn’t mince his words 😀
In fairness, what do you expect from a book on MH370 published now… There are no new facts really are there? I guess the most illuminating thing you could write is a good synopsis of what happened so far, what the different theories are, and to what extent they are logical and/or seemingly possible. Something like JW’s post before this one (or one earlier, you know which one I mean).
In light of current events, I found the murder of that Kim brother in KL really weird. I realise that this will send your ‘conspiracy theorist’ alarms ringing really badly (presumably that’s why no-one else so far wanted to be the guy who takes the dubious distinction of having it brought up on this forum…), but I couldn’t help thinking that Malaysia somehow seems to be a really ‘unlucky’ (for want of a better word) place at the moment. I want to be clear that I am not suggesting a link between the Kim murder and MH370, but I do feel sorry for the Malaysians – first one of your planes gets shot down by (most likely) ‘The Russians’, then another one disappears in a hyper-mysterious way, then the 1MDB scandal, and finally the pariah leader of probably the most disliked and, again for want of a better word, crazy countries on earth kills his half-brother in your capital’s airport with, of all things, a nerve gas that’s more deadly than Sarin. They have a streak of really really bad luck… I was recently thinking of buying an ETF on the Malaysia’s stock market (it’s fairly attractively priced), but this makes you think twice. No wonder their stock market keeps diving.
@Paul
I think I gave it a three on a five star scale.
A smoke in the cockpit theory occurring right at ATC handoff followed by shut down of ACARS and no communication at all… Good grief.
Then the plane manages to fly itself for another six hours and wander into the SIO under the random influence of wind and weather.
@Havelock, Re: why bad things seem to keep happening in Malaysia, I’ve found myself over the last decade or so doing a few different stories in Central America, and each time the subject of the story turned out to be not what he seemed at first. It struck me that if you have a place where the unscrupulous can get away with things, then the unscrupulous are naturally going to flock there.
@ Paul Dennis is not the only ‘mean old fellow’ out there. I purchased a Kindle copy, read it one session and posted this on the Amazon site:
This largely a rehash of information available from several sources. I think the most useful part of the book was the Recommendations at the end. Most of these are common sense with a couple of new ideas from my perspective. I believe the author discounted a lot of the scenarios rather lightly. There is little hard, factual information about this event so there still remain a lot of possible explanations in my opinion. The author discounts a possible hijack because there has been no ‘valid’ claim of responsibility – perhaps the hijackers were after valuable cargo – not interested to make a statement. The idea that the aircraft could go on as long as the author suggests with no pilot input, making several turns …… perhaps. I also think the author is perhaps somewhat naive about the Malaysian authorities. Their actions (or lack of actions) immediately following the disappearance and subsequently is surely indicative of something unusual. They know something – there is something amiss here. This book illustrates to me once again that being an experienced airline pilot does not necessarily make you an effective accident investigator. (I do agree with his comments about FOX news – not worth watching – as are most of the big name media outlets).
@JeffWise
FL250 is high for any handheld SAM, any soviet SAM that goes to 250 will easily go to 300-350
rebels bragged on twitter they “confiscated” a BUK from ukrainian army (which was probably the one provided by Russia), they even posted pictures
it was insane to allow civil traffic in that area
@Shadynuk
Thank you for the review, as I did not slog it through to the recommendations, which is a very important aspect to me. I suppose a good recommendations section could make be feel better about it (pending my reading).
@Havelock
I also do not relate Kim murder and MH370, but yes it is an intriguing and scary episode for the world. I was very curious to hear what poison could be so toxic, nerve agent in a najor airport? You gotta be kidding me.
@StevanG
“it was insane to allow civil traffic in that area”
… money, money, money
@Shadynuk
I find aircraft failure scenarios completely unsatisfactory. Where the aircraft diverted (during ATC handoff), where and how it traveled, the Malay response,… completely at odds with an aircraft failure. It is simply a dumb idea, IMO, and is statistically unlikely to begin with.
@Havelock – You mentioned four things that have happened involving Malaysia – MH370, MH17, 1MDB, and Kim. I wonder if they could all be connected?
If Najib skimmed $1B off of 1MDB, who lost that $1B? It would be one unhappy camper.
@Lauren
on the spot
@TBill, Havelock
It is not true, that there was no connex between Kim and MH370. Chinas interests is the connex. China was badly hurt in both events. Both of which are even a bit like a modern “Sarajevo”. China left now with an insane guy on top of nuclear weapons and long distance carriers , who is so unpredictable as to distirbute VX nerve gas in civil airports.
But america in this critical time is down to its last trump …
humans are still only a fraction of split second from their predator ancestors
@Jeff Wise
the discussion of the ambience of the MH370 event was badly neglected though. MY is known as an outstanding example for corruption and mafia dominance, and i think its chinese triads, constituting the mafia in KL. Also the Straits of Malacca is the most dangerous place for public transport and trade transport ever in the world where heavy ships use to disappear without a trace like MH370. And Aceh province in indonesia which is on the other side of the straits is known as rogue state, only formally tied to indonesia. The indonesian administration has nothing to say in there northern teritory. Also the Straits is a very well observed place in this world with a concentration of military forces, and not to forget, on the brink of war due to chinese territorial demands in the south china sea. It is a very hot ambience there … and that makes it necessary to ask tough questions about this event , what i see as a capture of a civil air liner in peace time and the hundred fold murder of innocnet and unarmed civilians
@StevanG, Do you have any links to the pictures that separatists posted of the Buk before the shoot-down? I’d be extremely interested to see that.
Here’s a snippet from an Al Jazeera story about the July 14 An-26 shootdown:
“Defense Minister Valeriy Heletey said the downed plane was flying at an altitude of about 21,300 feet, which he said was too high to be reached with the weapons used by the separatists. Rebels are known to have Igla portable surface-to-air missiles, which work up to about 11,480 feet.
Ukraine’s Security Council spokesman Andrei Lysenko said that according to information from crew members who the defense ministry says survived the attack, the rocket was either a surface-to-air Pantsir missile or a missile fired by a plane from Russia’s Millerovo Air Force base.”
Given the circumstances that shootdown didn’t attract nearly as much attention as MH-17 three days later, but it’s intriguing under the circumstances. Was part of the motivation to set a precedent, so that MH-17 could plausibly be described as an accident by rebels?
You’re right that a missile that could should down a plane at 21,300 could shoot down a plane at 35,000 feet. The key issue is: could anyone in possession of such a missile (e.g. the Russian Army) plausibly fail to discriminate between a civilian plane and a military transport?
@JW That’s a very smart observation. One wonders how Malaysia though became one of the places where ‘the unscrupulous can get away with things and where they flock’, as you aptly describe it.
My personal attempt at explaining it would involve a few things (apologies for the lengthy post): Imagine you’re a rich guy whose wealth stems from sources that might be questionable depending on your perspective. F.ex., a Chinese billionaire. Where do you go? First, you’ll want a place to park your money. Nowadays, there aren’t many places left that will fit your bill: Europe is effectively out for different reasons (the Euro/EU mess, the money laundering regulations), America as well (even worse in terms of money laundering regulations, plus they’ll just confiscate at will, at least that’s how people from outside will see it), Dubai went broke a couple years back so I’d personally be hesitant, South America – seriously?, and then you got Hong Kong. HK is out, as we found out quite recently, b/c the PRC effectively exerts full jurisdiction now (they recently abducted some billionaire from the Four Seasons, the story would make you shiver if you were an ethnically Sino billionaire camping out in HK). What’s left? Actually, Singapore. SG is pretty much the only place in the world any more where you can safely park ‘grey’ money. Trustworthy, highly developed financial system, never went broke, a world away from the EU and USA and their pesky laws.
So, our wealthy individual will maybe park his money in SG, but where will he ‘park’ himself’? SG’s nice but ultra expensive and frankly, quite sterile. MY, on the other hand, has very easy immigration laws (“Malaysia my second home”…) and is pretty much the only country in the region where you can acquire property, plus it has great infrastructure (by regional standards) and your money and everything else is close by in SG. Anecdotally, if you wander around Georgetown, you’ll see a suspicious number of slightly unfittingly expensive cars driving by…
@TBill, Lauren H., Peter Heinrichsen
I agree that the use of VX (an acknowledged WMD) in a major international airport can be seen as a kind of ‘Sarajevo moment’, not least from the perspective of PRC. I think it’s fair to say that KJU crossed a line here, as can be seen from PRC’s decision to stop coal imports from NK and thus risk vitally destabilising NK. From our perspective as ‘average human beings’ (me at least, haha), TBill I agree, ‘nerve agent in a major airport? you gotta be kidding me’ – yes this sums it up. If you wanted to be ultra dialectical (or diabolical), you could see a parallel to the murder of Litvinenko in London using Polonium (most likely, by the Russians) – obviously this goes into the realm of conspiracy theories again, but if you wanted to put fire on the Asia situation and you were sufficiently unscrupulous, killing KJU’s brother with nerve gas in KL would pretty much be the ultimate move… However, the evidence points towards KJU actually being behind this.
@Lauren H
Najib skimmed from the Malay people first of all. However, with a billion bucks up for grabs, who knows what went on/is going on behind the scenes.
@Cosmic Academy
You write: “i think that russia is preparing for military activities in europe right now. one of the best signs is, that gorbatchev sells his house in southern germany, or other signs are, that russian informants and agents prepare for their departure. i know that from events in my personal domain.”
Can you elaborate? I find this equally disturbing and logical as NATO is deploying troops to the Baltics. I can’t see Russia not being provoked by this. As I live in a ‘middle European’ country the idea of “Russia preparing for military activities in Europe” isn’t great comfort.
Sorry for the long post!
@all @Havelock @TBill @Lauren H. @Peter Heinrichsen
I don’t know how anyone can be so blindingly confident that they can rule out absolutely any link between the KL assassination and MH370. Or have these people so tired of entertaining MH370 ‘coincidences’ they’ve lazily decided to give up on any new lead?
Its certainly the first thing that came to my mind:
* A ‘northern path’ nation – tick
* A desire to humiliate the West – tick
* A desire to stun the world as regards its technological capabilities/advancement – tick
* A desire to send a warning to the West (“don’t mess with us”) – tick
More or less, the exact same points Jeff raises (much more eloquently, of course) about Russia! In many ways you could even argue that North Korea is a much better candidate – it has much more to prove. Also, two fingers up to China – weren’t they also starting to lose their patience with Pyongyang around 2013-ish?
I don’t know if this happening now is “unlucky” or there’s more to it. I’d never say never. The whole affair is very, very strange. At the centre of it a Vietnamese woman, who we then find out isn’t really Vietnamese but Indonesian. North Korea, Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia… see where this is going… And Vietnam and Indonesia both wanting access to a North Korean’s body who was murdered in Malaysia. What ?!?
Then, this from the (Malaysian) Star Online a few days ago…
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2017/02/23/mystery-over-air-koryos-office-location-signage-removed-and-employee-of-airlines-virtual-office-deni/
To summarize: The North Korean airline – Air Koryo – suddenly entered the fray with the revelation by Malaysian police that one of its employees was a wanted man in the investigation of Kim Jong-Nam’s death. But even the location of its Kuala Lumpur office has become a mystery – its completely disappeared off the radar!
Anyway, not sure why it still had a virtual office in KL if Pyongyang-KL flights had already ceased in 2014, as the Malaysian Aviation Commission (Mavcom) revealed. Air Koryo’s application to fly to Malaysia was rejected by the commission in 2014 due to economic sanctions imposed under UN Resolution 2270.
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2017/02/23/air-koryos-pyongyang-kl-direct-flights-ceased-in-2014/
So – I don’t know if its brave or foolish for anyone to give a cast-iron guarantee that there’s absolutely NO link between the KL assassination and MH370…
@Sajid
There is no doubt in my mind that something was happening during the diversion. The Malay response during and in the period afterwards clearly indicates that.
@all @DennisW @Havelock @TBill @Lauren H. @Peter Heinrichsen
Sorry, having constant timeout errors trying to post anything on here nowadays so the above was kinda rushed and badly worded…
Regards Air Koryo’s offices: two things strike me as odd. One, why would an airline employee have anything to do with the murder of Kim Jong-Nam anyway? And secondly, what the hell is a North Korean national carrier doing in KL three years after 2014 when it no longer has any business there?
Oh yeah – that other “coincidence” – Pyongyang to KL flights cease in 2014… (cough). MH370 seems to breed coincidences.
My point earlier was, a North Korea man was murdered in KL. Okay, Fine! But what the hell have Vietnam, Indonesia, airliners, airline employees, airports, could to do with all this anyway?! To put it another way, the same countries, ideas, images are now seem to be swirling around the KL mystery assassination as the ones that were around MH370. It’s a little bit odd when you think about it.
Why even bother assassinating somebody in an airport? Isn’t it incredibly reckless and brash for an executioner who wishes to remain anonymous and discrete? Or is there another reason? A warning shot maybe (a la MH17)? Or something symbolic? Or an act of censorship? Or a combination of all of these?
It doesn’t have to be black and white: North Korea did it or the Russians didn’t or the Malaysians did it… That part of the picture (if this really was some deep interwoven conspiracy) we just wouldn’t be able to grasp so easily (or maybe ever). But what I don’t understand is why many just seem to be unquestioningly dismissing any link out of hand.
@JeffWise
“Do you have any links to the pictures that separatists posted of the Buk before the shoot-down? I’d be extremely interested to see that.”
no, and it’s safe to assume they were deleted after MH17 happened
maybe something could be found on webarchive or similar sites but it would be very tiresome to find them
my guess is that it was just some random picture of ukrainian BUK taken maybe years before, just to serve as justification for russian BUK that got over the border
mind you, rebels really did storm couple of ukrainian SAM sites however ukrainian military most probably took everything of use with them
“Given the circumstances that shootdown didn’t attract nearly as much attention as MH-17 three days later, but it’s intriguing under the circumstances. Was part of the motivation to set a precedent, so that MH-17 could plausibly be described as an accident by rebels?
You’re right that a missile that could should down a plane at 21,300 could shoot down a plane at 35,000 feet. The key issue is: could anyone in possession of such a missile (e.g. the Russian Army) plausibly fail to discriminate between a civilian plane and a military transport?”
russian doctrine was(and still is) to involve as many local fighters as possible, there are rebels that served in ukrainian army which have some experience with operating SAM
it’s not hard to assume they got overly confident in their abilities after shooting an Antonov so didn’t pay enough attention on identifying the incoming plane properly
there are rumors that recently killed rebel commanders (Givi, Motorola and couple of others) got assassinated with russian involvement because they knew “too much” about infamous BUK
@Sajid UK
Come back to you for my earlier comment to Jeff could be expected as you said.
You were right and in a way I’m glad to.
MH17 is still under investigation. It’s silent now but believe me the Dutch will come forward if the real perpetrators (the onces finaly responsible) are identified. They will be called upon to justify themselfs under legal justice.
My concern about Jeff’s approuch now (again) is he tries to link MH17 to MH370 with no evidence or reasonable links at all.
He steers to a view that MH17 was brought down specifically by a direct order from the Kremlin.
There’s no evidence at all yet this was the case.
Let alone some proof of a Russian connection to the disappearance of MH370.
Linking MH17 to MH370 is therefore now only disturbing and distracting from the ongoing investigation and other efforts to find MH370 based on available data.
I post around here for about 2 years now.
I haven’t lost faith in Jeff’s intentions in anyway but this is not the way to go I believe.
Well it’s his blog so he gets to set the rules. I don’t like it either nor I think it’s beneficial for the blog but he is free to do what he wants 🙂
we don’t have better blog about MH370 anyway
These Ruskies do a good line in complicated tie-wear, don’t they? Just sayin’ since we don’t seem to be talking about MH370 any more 😉
This was in Free Malaysia Today:
Malaysian Airline System Bhd (MAS) has been ordered to provide the relevant documents over the disappearance of Flight MH370 to 76 next of kin of passengers who filed the biggest lawsuit here.
A three-man Court of Appeal bench, chaired by Tengku Maimun Tuan Mat, said the High Court judge did not make any error in his discretion to order MAS to provide the information sought.
“There is no compelling and substantial reason to disturb the findings of the judge,” she said in dismissing the appeal by MAS.
The court also ordered RM10,000 in costs to the next of kin, represented by Tommy Thomas.
On Sept 8, then judicial commissioner Azizul Azmi Adnan had granted family members of passengers, hailing from China, India and the United States, the general discovery of documents.
The family members had named MAS, the Department of Civil Aviation (DCA), the Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) and the government in its suit.
With the exception of MAS, all the rest have agreed to comply with Azizul’s ruling.
The plaintiffs are seeking 37 items, including all notes, memoranda and investigative reports by any and all investigators who participated in the probe.
On March 3 last year, family members of 32 passengers on the plane sued MAS for alleged negligence and breach of duties.
They alleged the plane’s disappearance was caused by MAS’ negligence and that the national carrier had breached the Montreal Convention by causing the injuries and death of all 239 passengers and crew members.
They claimed DCA, RMAF and the government conspired with MAS in the investigation in a “grossly negligent manner” to delay the search, causing the deaths of all passengers and crew.
The next of kin are seeking damages and losses they suffered after their loved ones went missing.
MAS flight MH370 disappeared while en route to Beijing, China, from Kuala Lumpur International Airport in the early hours of March 8, 2014.
The families have said MAS gave no proper account of events that had happened during the flight which the next of kin were later informed, through text messages, had gone down in the Southern Indian Ocean.
The DCA director-general had on Jan 29, 2015 declared MH370 to be an accident and that all passengers and crew on board the flight were presumed to have lost their lives.
Earlier today, MAS’ lawyer Saranjit Singh said his client objected over the discovery of documents on the grounds that it was premature and not necessary.
“MAS has conceded liability after the government declared MH370 to be an accident.”
He said the plaintiffs wanted to get the information to prove their case against other defendants.
Thomas, however, argued that these documents, among others, related to the background and sequence of events of the incident and its search operations, which were relevant and critical evidence for the trial.
Saranjit said he needed to take instruction from his client on whether to appeal to the Federal Court.
Malaysian Airline System Berhad is now known as Malaysia Airlines Berhad.
@StefanG
Yes I agree. But Jeff’s blog was one of the best available since VictorI opened his blog.
And his (Jeff’s) still is one of the best.
Hard critisism is not new to Jeff’s blog and he himself pushed the limits of logic more than twice.
He is a tough critic as anyone here on the blog knows so I won’t excusse myself for being critical.
Posting here for more then 2 years I trust Jeff has the same drive to solve this mystery.
And as you say he has every freedom to purshue his objectives the way he likes.
MH370 is still a mess.
The only fact Jeff can state a topic like this is illustrating to this mess.
It illustrates no one has a definite clue yet to what happened.
Still I think the debris and the drifter based drift analyzis togehter with the Inmarsat data is all we factualy have.
And they are not conflicting eachother.
They point to an area between ~28S and ~32S and not to a high speed dive impact with breaking off trailing edges on both wings followed by the clean breaking of a flaperon and outboard flap section. This just makes no sence.
All those ~90% trailing edge wing related, surface controle related, engine cowling related, flap fairing related pieces must have seperated during a relatively low energy ~level impact on the water.
This is the evidence that’s shown by the debris. Why ignore this and look for more complicated scenarios?
Why ignoring the obvious and pershueing complicated theories of planted debris and fabricated pieces from other planes?
Or why maybe Russians are involved in the disappearance of MH370? What’s the use?
Will it help anyone to find the plane with the given data? No.
As long as no evidence shows up on involvement by the Russians, the Malaysians, the Chinees, the Americans or anyone else, the available debris, drift analyzis and other data is what we have to work with .
Nothing else.
Cheers