Via alert reader @Susie, photos have emerged on Tanzanian social media of an object that looks very much like a control surface from an airliner. Here’s what Bing Translator makes of the original Kiswahili:
Wing of the plane have been conflict and civilians today in the Indian Ocean on the island of Kojani. Made known is what airlines.
A place where it is believed to the remains of the plane have been caught in the Indian Ocean Island beach in Kojani.
Wing of the plane was found in the island of Kojani, is eliciting a great debate among the inhabitants of the island with many believing it is the wing flight of malaysia which was lost without a known future. Airlines of Malaysia Airlines with type MH370, it had disappeared March 8 in 2014 has never been visible until today.
Though still no certainty is what bird fossils, experts of air travel have started initial stages of the investigation of the wreckage of the plane.
Reports say security officials already have started to investigate the wing and probably not long we get enough information from entities involved
Kojani is a small inhabited island near Pemba, about 50 nautical miles north of Zanzibar and 500 miles north of the beaches in Mozambique where MH370 debris has previously been found. It has been described as “one of the least accessible villages [of Pemba], located on an islet off the eastern coast of the main island. At the last count Kojani was home to more than nine thousand people.” While still south of the equator, it is by far the northernmost debris from MH370 identified so far, if that is indeed what it is.
Its appearance is strongly reminiscent of the flaperon found on Réunion island, although there seems to be none of the broken-off hinge attachments and so forth that were visible on the ends and underside of the flaperon. Also, there is a very visible waterline, which the flaperon lacked. It would be interesting to know if this waterline corresponds with that observed by the French investigators when they put the flaperon in their test tank in Toulouse.
So what is it, exactly? Commenter @Rob suggests it “Might be a piece of inboard flap.” @Ken Goodwin writes “Though the part has the shape of a wing part. It does not jog the memory. Closed large end with no fittings. Surface with no fittings. ???” Of course it might not be from MH370 at all. But if it is, it breaks from the recent trend of debris items being small enough to hold with one hand.
I hope that somehow this object finds its way into the hands of independent investigators who can examine it before it disappears into the black hole that is the Malaysian investigation.
UPDATE 6/24/16: New photos from Jamilforums below.
For references, here’s a shot of the outboard end of the right flaperon found on Réunion:
In both pieces it seems that the main structure is aluminum, with the curved leading edge made of composite material.
@Paul Smithson
Don’t read Swahili but is the measure you name the width (from leading edge to trailing edge)?
A bit disturbing news from Malaysian authorities about previos items found at Madagascar:
http://aircrashsupportgroupaustralia.weebly.com/response-to-malaysian-mot.html
… and, with some time wasted, I believe you are noting the
similarity between the hinge (aluminium like-coloured) below the
flap in this picture;
http://www.jamiiforums.com/attachments/image-jpeg.359674/
with the hinge seen (when zoomed) in this picture;
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/55b91d41e4b0e176420df76f/55b9383ae4b0163e11183aa5/55f724c7e4b0a20935136cd3/1442260167774/The+Laird+Co+Boeing+777+Wing+Slat+detail+aviation+avgeek+airplane+airline+photography+for+site.jpg
which is located at picture width position 550 & picture height
position 550 (considering the top left corner of that picture as
position width 0, height 0 ).
Good find, and Kudos to you for such keen recognition.
The only other large Boeing lost anywhere near is the 767 from
the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961 crash. To forestall any claim
that it might be from Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961, perhaps we
should try and see if the 767 has such a hinge.
um, yeeesss, OK, there was this Boeing 727-223;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Boeing_727-223_disappearance
that went missing in Africa also, so I guess the
727-223 hinge needs comparison also!
(@all
Jeffs’ board software holds back certain posts, you may not see
a post from me giving specific references to Ge Rijns find for
several more minutes, and then it may appear before (!) this post.)
@buyerninety
So, taking the easy way out and ridicule is your approach it seems.
Then I prefer explaining to a child with a more constructive attitude.
@ Ge Rijn
I would suggest you may find it appropriate to wait until Jeff
allows my post (I mentioned above) to appear on the board, it
exactly clarifies your find.
@Jeff
perhaps you would reconsider your ‘one URL only’ limit in
posts, (unless it is a board software imposed limit), you
can see now how it causes misunderstandings & difficulties
to the exchange of information…
A bit more about the stolen 727 .
http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/2013/11/03/where-is-the-missing-727-missing-ben-padilla-story-by-then-washington-post-writer-john-mintz/
Apparently the 727 was silver with only a thin white stripe along with red and blue stripes.
I don’t know if this means the wings were also silver.
If so then it would rule it out.
Hi,
Been reading the site for some time but first time poster.
Pemba is not far at all from Kenya; if the Kojana find turns out to be MH370, then Mombasa and other towns on Kenya’s east coast should be on the look out, too.
I also wonder if there could be wreckage sitting on the east coast of South Africa. Along the shores from the border with Mozambique to Cape Vidal lies about 150 miles of protected beaches (Isimangaliso/St. Lucia preserve). There are high barrier dunes and few places to access the shore except at Cape Vidal and Sodwana Bay. Sodwana has tourists visiting the beach or scuba diving at the coral reef a ways out, so hopeful that the diving companies have been alerted to look for possible wreckage.
@Susie
@buyerninety did not post this info as a serious option (at least I hope so) but as a reaction to my posts.
The disappearance of this plane happened 13 years ago on the Atlantic coast.
It’s completely irrelevant regarding MH370 and only distracting of the issues at hand imo.
@buyerninety
I’ll await your delayed post.
I sent two more links but they are held in moderation .
Heres a picture of the plane,Boeing 727-223, tail number N844AA.
http://gb.fotolibra.com/images/previews/412721-boeing-727-223adv-n844aa-american.jpeg
Point taken Ge Rijn and no more links from me , I have looked at this before and I think it is interesting from the POV of what was done done find it and what was suspected .
@ Ge Rijn
I did wonder…! My geography isn’t amazing but the Atlantic might mean Tanzania is a bit off course.
Thanks.
@Ge Rijn:
Is this the comparison you are trying to make?
https://goo.gl/9Mc0Ew
@airlandseaman
Yes exactly.
I’ve got those pictures the same but thanks a lot for dropping this comparison picture.
It seems Jeff isn’t present ATM.
@airlandseaman
(One of my posts is delayed too long, I’ll repost only this
part of it’s info:) … compare also this picture;
http://www.jamiiforums.com/attachments/image-jpeg.359674/
where in you can more clearly see what appears to be
(despite much damage) matching ‘ribbing’ on the hinge.
@airlandseaman
I’ll think about registrating to dropbox myself.
If I could post photos directly to Jeffs blog I had chosen that option offcourse.
I understand it makes it more difficult making a point clear by refering to all kinds of links.
A photo like you posted makes it a lot easier.
@airlandseaman: Thank you so much. I was having the same problems as @buyerninety and you are very helpful.
I read several conclusive opinions on other sites the piece is an inboard flap.
To compare with an inboard flap on the same original picture:
The hinges on the inboard flaps are very different and there is no clean edge on any inboard flap. So it’s not an inboard flap.
IMO agian it only fits the first section of the right outboard flap.
FWIIW…I learned this morning that another IG member (Barry) independently identified the same correlation with the outboard flap “hinge” using MH17 debris as an example. Better photos would help. The Tanzania debris photo perspective gives the (false?) impression that the piece is rectangular (like the inboard flap). But it is probably tapered, like the outboard flap. We’ll keep working on this.
@airlandseaman
I zoomed in a bit more on the wing part and enhanced some light and contrast on both pictures.
It somewhat details the picture better.
Better pictures are offcourse welcome but I think detail on those both pictures are sufficient. The number of ribbes dividing the part in segments, their shape, the small black rectangular in the middle section, the shape of the attechement points on the flap, the position of the hinge on the flap all correspond.
Good luck with working on it further.
Hope to hear the results here.
@alsm,
Whether inboard or outboard flap, given the size and condition (if confirmed to be from MH370) do you still think that flutter is indicated?
Flutter would indicate possible separation before impact, therefore large dispersal before landfall. Continuing to find parts of the same area of the right wing, seems to indicate a more concentrated/simultaneous start of drift of the discovered pieces, would it not?
What are your thoughts on that? Is a contolled ditching, i.e. simultaneous start location and time of drift – time and location of ditching – a more reasonable assumption?
Just some minor points:
Paul Smithson June 25, 2016 at 5:00 AM, said;
“Found in a “cave” (could mean overhang of eroded coral rag –
common in this area). Thought by the fishmermen who found it to
have been there for some time on account of the corrosion they
observed”
‘overhang of eroded coral rag’ suggests the flap may not have
been visible to people on the land looking along or outwards to
the sea, but may have been visible to fisherman on the sea
looking shorewards – hence reason why it was not discovered
previously (in addition to the areas remoteness & lack of
population).
(Wiki) Coral rag = ‘rubbly limestone’ meaning blocks of, or a
formation of limestone. If the flap was laying under or amongst
limestone for a protracted period of time, the natural dripdown
and sloosh of the waves on the limestone would not cause any
significant corrision of the metal of the hinge, but it could
contribute to causing the surface appearance (colour/texture) of
the metal to look ‘prematurely aged’ (in addition to the prolonged
immersion in saltwater). To my eyes, at least, the metal hinge
looked as if it were like some metal from the 1970’s.
@buyerninety
What is this. First you question my comprehension of matters in your percieved supreme comprehension, then you ridicule my efforts to serve you with pictures and explanation, then you come back on ASLM (not me) with a faint explanation of that hinge picture and your post which did not show up.
Now you turn things around again by making the ridiculous suggestion the piece was in a cave for 13 years and could be part of that missing 727.
What’s your problem?
@Ge Rijn
Calm Down, you’re making a scene!
@Rob
It’s about communication and the way you do it.
To get things straight, sometimes this is perhaps what’s needed (I know and you know) to arrive on a constructive level again.
I’m sure @buyerninety can speak for himself.
@Ge Rijn
I would agree with buyerninety that your comparisons are not clear.
Here’s an example of a clear comparion: http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/embed/public/2016/05/12/part-4-mh370.jpg
@Rob
And another argument.
This blog of Jeff Wise is an international popular blog on MH370.
It gets read by many interested NOK (thank you Susie I’ve got it;), layman/women, scientists and also -I’m sure- official parties.
This could easily invite people who have other objectives.
To ridicule and distract discussions if they go a certain way f.i.
Not that I suspect @buyerninety of such a thing at all but IMO it’s something to keep in mind.
…anyway, as the personal effects are reconsidered, all the pieces found are quite well handleable by few hands, for me it still seems like some media game; sure I am probably mad already, but it all started for me along with this “forget to hope and learn to fear”, but question is if it really will be alright, at least to some extent; I simply cant accept that if its real and if all effort is directed, than today, with satellites, it is all missing that long; with the EgyptAir crash, there was mentioned military infra satellites immediatelly, while nothing there; sad, confused, and angry too; one thing I know for sure, that scientology will die finally, period
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDVAQI-4lto
@ALSM
Interesting that IG member Barry can match the hinge on the part to a B777 outboard flap hinge, because the upper surface of the aerofoil appears to me,to have a convex/concave/convex profile, same as the inboard edge of a B777 outboard flap.
I cannot match this item to a B777 inboard flap, but then if this piece is the inboard section of an outboard flap, it cannot have a squared edge (90deg corners) In the photo, it appears to have 90deg corners, unless as you say, it’s due to the lens’ perspective.
Do the skin panels look as if they are graphite (carbon)?
@Ge Rijn
Ah no, the ‘cave’ as Paul Smithson very generously came to
inform us, was actually more likely to be considered as an
‘overhang’ of limestone (the open side being open to the sea),
hence my previous post.
Myself, upon viewing the picture, (and the fisherman perhaps
also, from their comment) thought the metal to look ‘old’
because of its appearance – it’s hard to explain unless you’ve
seen various metals, over a longer period of lifetime (-this
sentence should not be taken as a slight against age).
My previous post attempted to suggest an additional reason why,
for some people, the metal may look ‘prematurely aged’.
To be sure, regarding yourself, “Good find, and Kudos to you
for such keen recognition.”, to quote myself from an (earlier)
post that seems to have been prevented from appearing by my
citing too may URLs or too many characters (or both).
I should point out, purely as if we were detectives, that we
should check any unlikely scenarios, so as to conclusively
rule them out from consideration. As an example, it could
be reasonably suggested, although an unlikely scenario, that
the flap with hinge could have come from Ethiopian Airlines
Flight 961, a Boeing 767-200ER that crashed into the sea off
the Comoros Islands. Examination of pictures of the flaps on
767’s might be a way to do this. Similarly, for the missing
727-223, (although even more unlikely), a similar method.
Here;
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%200706.html
in fact can be seen a diagram of much of the 727, wherein we
can see that inboard flap of a 727 has a ‘V’ shaped hinge,
very unlike the hinge on the Kojani debris – so possiblity of
Kojani debris (flap) being a 727 flap can be stated to be zero.
@Ge Rijn
Yes I’m sure buyerninety is absolutely “pukka”.
I agree with you about this forum’s international readership. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Martin Dolan had a transcript waiting on his breakfast breakfast table each morning.
If it belongs to MH370 it should be the right side. many of us considering sea growth issues. I wonder why they do not test for explosion by an external force.
@falken
Scientology is the ultimate holyfication of subjective reasoning.
Which cann’t be something else than subjective due to its limitations of possible input via eyes, ears, smell, touch, any awareness etc.
Thereby the limitations of our brains which only can think in catagories they are programmed with and the (very) insufficient abilities of our languages and words to express those thoughts, ideas and feelings correctly (examples here are pretty obvious;) make scientology a laugh IMO.
What’s realy out there in the end to me is a small world with some friends, the birds on my balcony, my music, a beer and.. argueing with in my eyes intelligent people who’ve got something stimulating to say.
Try to stay grounded falken. The world is too big to comprehend for one man alone.
@MuOne
1. “Whether inboard or outboard flap, given the size and condition (if confirmed to be from MH370) do you still think that flutter is indicated?”
I haven’t offered any opinion on the cause of separation for this part. Unlike the flaperon, there is not enough information yet to say.
2. “Flutter would indicate possible separation before impact, therefore large dispersal before landfall. Continuing to find parts of the same area of the right wing, seems to indicate a more concentrated/simultaneous start of drift of the discovered pieces, would it not?”
Even if the aircraft completely disintegrated at 20,000 feet, all of the debris would hit the ocean in approximately the same place for purposes of drift analysis.
3. “Is a controlled ditching, i.e. simultaneous start location and time of drift – time and location of ditching – a more reasonable assumption?”
No. See 2 above.
@ROB, you say;
“it appears to have 90deg corners, unless as you say, it’s due
to the lens’ perspective.”
Gysbreght has previously noted that it seems not to have 90°
corners – perhaps easier to notice when viewing the picure where
they are trying to get the flap through the doorway or hole in
the wall, by looking at the bottom (leading edge) of the flap,
following the line of the leading edge back, and then looking at
the top corner (trailing edge) of the flap and seeing the corner
appears to be ‘too far back’ for the angles to be 90°.
Or view this picture;
http://www.jamiiforums.com/attachments/image-jpeg.359674/
and see the top corner of the flap (its closest to the camera),
look at the line the leading edge goes to, compare it to the line
of the side of the flap, you can see it appears where those two
lines meet on the top of the flap to make an angle that is greater
than 90°…
As Ge Rijn says, it is the “first section of the right outboard
flap” (meaning if you consider the outboard flap as if the ‘2
flap track fairings’ were dividing the outboard flap into three
sections, then the first section is on the fuselage end of the
outboard flap).
@buyerninety
I agree, that corner nearest the camera is definitely greater than 90deg.
I was also thinking, possibly a B767 flap, ie Ethiopian Airlines, if only because of the condition of the paint surface. The amount of scratching and general wear and tear gives it an older appearance that the MH370 items identified to date.
@Ge Rijn
thanks, I am probably grounded way too much; you know, I experienced and saw at my own eyes that even high IQ people are absolutely not able to detect the danger in it; and even these days in our politics – some old traditional parties are interlinked with them somehow; they use spinoff businesses to make managers administrative trainings, not marked as something religious at all; but it spreads poison of mind, the hate, fear, pure stupidity and arrogance and it poison even the things like friends, balcony, music, beer… I am not afraid, but it affects people without any clue its happening; even just now here is battle about police investigation in high spheres of POLICE and its ugly as hell; this is not why I was personally involved in velvet revolution back in 89, really no… it used to be quite ok, but once campaign starts, people starts to eat each other – despite the fact that party surely linked with sceintology was in opposition few years; and not to mention neighbor country and the Ukraine, its spreaded there too; every high school student in Kiev wants to be software developer; they have probably no clue what it means to build thing like 777 as all their heavier industry is at east…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
@Ge Rijn
such “working together” approach is nice; all those people are; building the 777… 5 parts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oyWZjdXxlw
@Ge Rijn
and fortunatelly, there is still lot of fun around…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBTBBNOtbhM
@falken
That’s why I quite television 3 years ago and only feed myself with the things I choose to feed myself with, with only an internet account.
The poison a lot of media spread is immense and influences anyone willingly or not.
It drives a lot of people completely nuts. It’s just too much a normal feeling human can take on a daily basis IMO.
I’ve seen the effects myself. Worked for 25 years in psychiatry after working in the engine shop of KLM.
The MH370 saga is a human tragedy of, numbness, failure, bravoury, persistance, unscrupulousness, incompetence and competence in a nutshell.
It’s this exposing limitations of humans and ‘respected establishments’ what makes it so interesting to me for one side of it.
If combined forces are able to solve this mystery, a small scale battle would be won that could affect some things on a human scale and on a world scale.
@buyerninety
Thanks for explaining.
Like to mention the skin is not metal but composite with carbon. Maybe that’s why it looks ‘old’ by the unaware eye.
Indeed as you mention the outbourd flap is three sections. Probably covered by one overall skin piece. On the edge with the hinge remnants you can see the skin probably broke off there. It’s still sticking out in some places suggesting it went further.
There is absolutely no evidence for ”flutter”.
Same can be said about the speculation of the 00:19 data ”indicating” a steep dive.
Aircrafts, especially the ones built by Boeing are made to withstand flutter and are protected by flight enveloppe to prevent a steep dive.
@ir907
If the dive begins before the APU is deployed and the computers reboot there just may not be enough time for the plane to recover…especially if it was cruising at 10,000 ft at flame-out (one theory is that an emergency rapid decent from 35,000 was made before the turn south). With no engine thrust and only the control surfaces to regain control of the plane even a trained pilot…if he was still conscious…would be challenged.
@buyerninety
Just a little comment/suggestion on your posting style: are you pressing enter at the end of each line instead of just typing on and letting the text in your paragraphs automatically adjust into the available column width?
Maybe you prefer it this way… hope you don’t mind my suggestion 🙂
Here is a better photo for comparison for the support left attached to the Tanzania debris. And to rule out the inboard flaps. https://www.dropbox.com/s/fqywun6d5bgrqio/B777%20inboard%20flaps.jpg?dl=0 It would be part of the right side outboard flap that washed up, broken off at the support, it must be an internal rib we can see on the end. So it is the bit right next to the flaperon that already washed up.
It may have been suggested (and is probably obvious) but wondering if the clear water line on this piece could have come from its being ‘lodged’ within a small area, as described by the fishermen – so not able to move about very much?
@George Tilton:
Why would the ‘dive’ begin at all?
Even if it did dive, it wouldn’t reach flutter speed diving from 10,000 ft at LRC speed.
@Anyone
Surely, no one is seriously proposing that a retracted flap could be detached by flutter?
If the flap was extended, who extended it? Donald Duck?